Can someone explain after all how much the limo safety will be improved?
We feel the implementation of the new law does not serve a major purpose toward improvement of the safety of the limousine industry and it seems to be just a ploy by the lobbyist on behalf of the transport industry to collect extra income from an industry that is already suffering from the current recession.
Judge for yourself!
Within the 15 years of trading in the UK, there has never been a fatal accident and no one ever has died inside the limousine.
What about airplanes, trains, coaches, minibuses, black cabs? Which industry has the highest safety records?
Days are numbered for many limo companies in the UK.
According to a notice from “VOSA”, the limos will be clamped and crushed if not applying for new licences which can costs around £18,000 per limo.
People, who paid for limo hire and booked their limos in advance, may not be able to have the service.
Please show your support here, to save limos in the UK.
ReplyDeleteHey i love limos, why they are doing this? money...
ReplyDeleteIf VOSA and other engaged parties are aiming to raise the standards in the limousine industry, they should plan and act in a manner that does not raise concern over massive financial earnings from licence fees. They should also apply the fees in proportion and show a clear roadmap for the operators to adopt and raise their standards continuously.
ReplyDeleteLots of bookings will be cancelled, they are crazy, is it the last thing they can think to make money out people, go and get a life let the limos stay in West End London.
ReplyDeleteLimos have no harm to anyone or environment; even when carrying more passengers is good for the environment; imagine 20 kids want to go to school proms each with individual cars!!! Better to hire a hummer and go, is better for the environment. Let’s give them support. Save Limos in the UK.
ReplyDeleteI heard the news lots of people will lose their jobs, and no one is showing and response. why people are quite I will pass the message on. Welldone mate, keep it on.
ReplyDeletethat is true lots of people will lose their job, many booking must be cancelled
ReplyDeleteFrom a fully licensed PSV & PHV operator,this is not going to be a popular post, but here goes: I have stumbled upon your blog and read your views on the new enforcement powers given to VOSA on the 1st October. The thing is the basic laws appertaining to construction & use and also operator licensing have been around long before stretch limousines became popular in the UK. Also, before the enforcement changes were set in stone, anybody with a vested interest had the opportunity to contribute to the government issued Consultation document. This came out nearly 12 months ago. I note that nobody from the limousine industry contributed.
ReplyDeleteThis is the fundamental problem. You guys are, whether you like it or not, running a public transport service. You have motor vehicles in which you are transporting passengers from A to B for money. ie: Hire & Reward. In other words no different to Hackney, PHV or PSV except your vehicles are more elaborate. If you had your collective fingers on the public transport pulse or listened to those who are true public transport professionals you could have acted sooner. As it is you are now too late.
Do I or any other licensed individuals have any sympathy? No. It is as easy as falling off a greasy pole to get a PHV or Restricted PSV O Licence. What's the problem? There are thousands of limo operators with them already. Why buy vehicles that fail to meet CoIF standards? You are not above the law any more than I am with PSV's. If I were to buy a yellow school bus or ex. Greyhound coach from the US and tried to use it over here commercialy VOSA would soon put a stop to me and rightly so. It would be no use me whingeing about it. I should know the law and if I dont then I have made a bad business decision and would have to live with it.
Proper licensing can only be good for the limousine industry as it will weed out the lightweights and only leave those on the top of their game. It will also stop cheapskates and cowboys from wanting a piece of YOUR action as only those who are fit to obtain an operators licence will be able to trade.
This law is OK for coaches or minibuses, but when it comes to super stretch limos is a gray area. They should consider the nature of the limousine business, there is no argue with this law, the problem is with the “details” and “application”. Imagine today 100 limos want to apply to get a COIF certificate today, where should they go, how long is going to take them; VOSA is pushing the deadlines without any consideration regarding the application, this where the limo companies can sue VOSA.
ReplyDeleteDon’t forget the law is made by human, for the benefit of human society, look around how many times in the past 100 years the Constitutional law has been modified or updated in all countries around the world including United Kingdom. In the court the jury and the judge will issue the final verdicts based on the details, there are small details that can make someone guilty or not guilty "according to the same law". So how can the law makers ignore the details in limousine business? If your aim is to increase the safety and bring the standards in the Limousine business then well done, let’s do that. But with closed eyes and irresponsible law making nothing can be achieve except disaster.
I recommended loosen up the COIF certificate for the existing super stretch limos, so they can pass the certificate with an affordable cost, over the time those limos will do their job and will be clear off the streets anyway, if there was no fatality in the past 15 years, another 5 years won’t risk much life.
Meanwhile you can tighten the law and control the import of the limousines, making sure only fit and COIFy limos can be imported.
When the bank is financing a Hummer to come to this country to make money according to the forecasts of the business plan, when people are already doing this business for more than a decade, and risking their home to finance these vehicles… then this way of application will destroy lives not save lives.
I can fully understand that it seems as though everybody who wishes to atttain CoIF on their vehicles are going to get caught in the scrum, but as I said in my initial post, this has been on the cards for ages now and there has plenty of time to prepare. Don't expect VOSA to come knocking on your door every time they change some regulation or another as they wont I can assure you! In fact they are slow to publicise stuff. Their manual regarding new drivers hours came out months AFTER the law changed as one example.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have never understood is why anybody would spend a very significant amount of money on a vehicle that automatically falls foul of existing regulations. Don't forget, these have always been there it's just they haven't been enforced to any degree. (Trying to sue them for attempting to enforce an existing law is going to get you nowhere except poor in legal fees) Now the enforcement powers have increased this will obviously change. Is this just ignorance on the part of the owner or is he adopting an "I'll do what I like" attitude? Either way there is no excuse.
CoIF is a set of standards that ALL vehicles of more than nine seats have to attain for good reasons. Moving the goal-posts for one will mean doing so for another with the end result being that coachbuilders of different types will expect VOSA to make allowances to suit their own ends.
Your idea of relaxing certain conditions to achieve CoIF may have been a negotiating tool some time ago, but with the Ford Excursion, Hummerzine and various Sprinter/ Crafter based 'Limo Buses' all being CoIF-able now, that is really a lost cause. Now it can be proven to be done you have no chance.
I have attended the Coach & Bus Show at the NEC today and spoke at length with a VOSA representitive about the new powers. Make no mistake, they mean business on this one! They have also published a dedicated guide specifically for limousine operators (consider yourselves honoured!) which is very clear and explains pretty much everything you need to know. I'll blow my own trumpet here and say that none of it was new to me. In fact any qualified public transport operator would (indeed should) have full knowledge of it anyway. One thing of note is that they are very much aware of the Self-Drive hire option, which they refere to as 'Dry Hiring'. It seems that loophole is shut for limo owners too and they would be prosecuted for no 'O' Licence as well as no CoIF.
I appreciate there is now considerable unrest with certain limo owners, but my impression now after conversations I had today are that you are on a hiding to nothing.
From what we have been told, I understand that there was only one formal written notice to the limousine companies 2 weeks before the restrict enforcement of this law. VOSA and NLCA should have acted more severely on this case not leaving it for the last moment notice! This means to send notice letters, even knock at their door for inspections and also let the finance companies and import officers know that these vehicles are not fit for the job. We have people from local council visiting our offices for safety of staff, checking everything from fire risk assessment, stairs, carpets, lights, disability access, checking all the documents and insurances. VOSA could have done this for limousines companies before and let the owners know where there is a problem and give a timescale to update.
ReplyDeleteLimo operators are not hiding; they are not lawyers sometimes a friendly inspection and advice can work much better than aggressive letters of warning and intimidation.
Also the recent meeting request is another sign of emotional reaction from representatives of this industry, when almost all the limo companies in trouble are located in London, Kent, Essex, Surry, and Brighton … why having the meeting in Manchester?
If you aim to help the limo companies to have standards, this is not the way.
Save UK Limos is an independent site; we will publish this conversation in our website, between Alan and nickname Alex. Thank you for comments